FIDE Press release, 21 March 2022
The FIDE Ethics and Disciplinary Commission (EDC) has reached a verdict on the case 2/2022, relating to public statements by grandmasters Sergey Karjakin (FIDE ID 14109603) and Sergei Shipov (FIDE ID 4113624).
The EDC First Instance Chamber, formed by Yolander Persaud (Guyana), Ravindra Dongre (India), and Johan Sigeman (Sweden) as Chairperson, unanimously decided as follows:
Sergey Karjakin is found guilty of breach of article 2.2.10 of the FIDE Code of Ethics, and is sanctioned to a worldwide ban of six months from participating as a player in any FIDE rated chess competition, taking effect from the date of this decision, 21 March 2022.
Sergei Shipov is found not guilty of breach of article 2.2.10 of the FIDE Code of Ethics.
The article 2.2.10 of the Code of Ethics reads as follows:
“(…) Disciplinary action in accordance with this Code of Ethics will be taken in cases of occurrences which cause the game of chess, FIDE or its federations to appear in an unjustifiable unfavorable light and in this way damage its reputation.”
“The statements by Sergey Karjakin on the ongoing military conflict in Ukraine has led to a considerable number of reactions on social media and elsewhere, to a large extent negative towards the opinions expressed by Sergey Karjakin”, reads point 7.37 of the 10-page document where the EDC explains the reasons and legal background for its decision.
It continues: “A necessary condition for the establishment of guilt is that the statements have reached the public domain. This concept, with respect to disrepute clauses in sport, is not the world at large but the sport in which the accused engages, such as chess. Information concerning the accused's conduct which is not published in the media, but which can be learnt without a great deal of labour by persons engaged in the chess world or a relevant part of it, will be in the public domain and satisfy the public exposure element. The EDC Chamber is comfortably satisfied that this condition is fulfilled in this case.”
“The EDC Chamber finds, against the background given above, on the standard of comfortable satisfaction that the statements of Sergey Karjakin, which, by his own choice and presentation, can be connected to the game of chess, damage the reputation of the game of chess and/or FIDE. The likelihood that these statements will damage the reputation of Sergey Karjakin personally is also considerable”, it concludes.
The Chamber explains its decision to not sanction Sergei Shipov with the following argument: “In comparison with Sergey Karjakin, Sergei Shipov is considerably less known and has, therefore, a less powerful platform. The statements made by Sergei Shipov are also of a slightly different and less provocative character than the ones made by Karjakin. In an overall evaluation of the potential negative impact on the game of chess and/or FIDE, the EDC Chamber is not sufficiently convinced that Sergei Shipov’s statements qualify as a breach of article 2.2.10.”
Sergey Karjakin has been advised by EDC that this decision may be appealed to the Appeal Chamber of the EDC by giving written notice of such appeal to the FIDE Secretariat within 21 days from the date upon which this decision is received. The notice of appeal must clearly state all the grounds for the appeal. Failing the due exercise of this right of appeal, the EDC Chamber's decision will become final.
No need play "dumb and dumber" by yourself, because others can believe it. Like Quanber, he openly wrote toward you - crazy or FSB troll. May be you feel somehow thrill from that, but i consider such behavior as trolling.
My post was about settle thing about Bandera and Suchevic. Martas start play 3 apes, due - (no need learn history), because it is written by winners. On the contrary - history must be revealed, otherwise next 3 apes players will come on scene.
And for France - almost 7 years France plays 3 apes, may be not long enough for you, but it was enough for Hitler.
Yes and no. Technique yes, no - tried to mathematically prove. It is little wrong to compare iron/cotton to nuclear bomb/riffle. Cotton bar struck in a velocity of 0.1 m/s is totally different than hitting 800 m/s, would you agree? Then it does not matter if you get hit to head by 1 kg iron or 1 kg cotton and is it nuclear bomb or rifle bullet. It hurts only for while.
Thanks, lajos. There is always something for the first time.
Same speed of falling down? In vacuum yes.
This might surprise or even upset you but I never lie, not on purpose. If the thing I am writing is not a fact then it has been either not intentional or was a just a innocent mistake. I do use a sarcastic or slightly exaggerated tone to make the real point and of course because I hate to use emojis. I have much more fun to write truth than lie. It is senseless and very stupid to lie if everybody can check the facts, right?
Yes, of course they have. Japan changed its strategy to one that defended the military conquests of recent decades, and that didn’t mean the Japanese islands and nearby waters. Korea, China, Philippine Islands...You can check this for yourself.
So, was he nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Or wasn't the push of that button an important decision?"
Really? Do you feel you have problems understanding? Hirohito did make the decision of the surrender. After two bombs he seemed to change his attitude.
Well you should say that if some foreign country attacks on Hungary and take over the whole country or few "small "pieces" of it. By the way, nuking Ukraine? By the attacker? Like USA attacked first on Japan? Was this an alignment of two different events?
The fact is that Japan did not surrender when asked by USA. Japan refused to surrender. It is totally pointless and useless to guess "what would have been happened if USA had stopped the war before those two nuclear bombs." No one knows and will know.
Yes they have, I just commented to chessbibliophine, that if a scientist is really worried about the inventions he or his friends make, he should not be involved in producing the weapons obtained from them.
Actually I meant: does the victim care who/what "beats" him in the head?
I agree that nuclear bomb will cause more damage, because of a radioactive substance...
You must also agree that to bomb one or two more years with fire bombs, to all big cities would have caused more deaths and also destruction in everywhere in Japan?
@MauvaisFou We will indeed not know the exact effects on the candidates. Yet, the problem is that non-chess measures were taken to artificially alter the results of the candidates. I would prefer to see Karjakin farely beaten, rather than being discriminated and excluded.
"The previous Candidates were already affected by (public health) politics, with Radjabov not playing and the two Chinese players unable to defend their chances fairly."
Radjabov did not play due to his own decision, it was not FIDE discriminating him. FIDE is also innocent with the problems Chinese players faced. In this case, FIDE is actively perpetrating discrimination. So, while problems we have seen previously were sad as well, this one is FIDE's fault.
"One last thing : what would you say if there were an Ukrainian candidate ?"
I would not have any particular feelings or thoughts about that. If a Ukrainian player would have qualified (Ivanchuk certainly has the strength necessary for that), then I would have watched his/her games with interest.
Now arzi is also an FSB troll according to you? He was consistently arguing against Putin and he was in full support in Ukraine's efforts for self-defense. While I do disagree with him about many things, I do try to understand his position and in the case of Karjakin, he admitted that he is not very much informed about what Karjakin has written. So, he does not have a strong opinion about it. What's wrong with that?
"You have so many input here that it normally takes a hole group of FSB Trolls to produce them. Impressive ! But then again , impressive nonsense. Pure empty words."
Saying that without arguments is a sign of lacking character. I actually take my time and show arzi 1. what I disagree with, 2. why do I think like I do. There were times when I stopped debating him, which is always a sad decision and I always point out why I stop debating him, so, he will know what I considered to be grave and he can decide whether he thinks that I was right. He writes a lot, surely, but it would be very strange from an FSB troll, like you assume him to be to consistently bash Putin for the invasion he started. No, arzi not an FSB troll and I have no reason to believe that anyone here has anything to do with secret services, except you, because you have said earlier that you were in this profession.
I'm sure that Karjakin genuinely agrees with his own statements. If we would assume that he disagrees with his own statements, then on what grounds would FIDE punish him for statements that he was forced to make? So, since Karjakin honestly supports Russia and Putin in this conflict, FIDE is punishing him for the expression of his opinion. FIDE therefore questions his right for free speech. We are not speaking here about the right for free speech being stifled in Russia, which is surely a problem as well, we are discussing FIDE's approach to freedom of speech and expression. However terrible one's opinion we find, we need to be tolerant to it, until the words incite for violent actions against civilians. So, if Karjakin would actively incite to any violence against Ukrainian civilians, then I would also agree in sanctioning him. But while he only speaks about how much he supports his country and president as well as the plight of the Russian minority in Ukraine while Ukraine is waging war against them, this should also be tolerated. If one disagree with it, then one can defeat Karjakin's position with proper arguments.
It is the right of tournament organizers to decide who they invite, but FIDE does not have the right for this kind of subjectivity at tournaments, especially if someone already qualified to them.
Well, you have to give some more time to Putin. Maybe he will overpower Stalin?
Every country has a right for self-defense, including the Ukraine and Japan.
"How do you know I did not do that? Do you have some truth glasses fitted only for your eyes?"
"That last sentence was not about you but Hirohito. It is quite funny way to give me first a message and then tell that you are not interesting in to read my answers. Wow!"
Here I agree with you. Without irony or sarcasm. If chessbibliophile stops unilaterally the discussion, that's of course his right and we should not question it. But, saying that you should only write after thoroughly studying is wrong, because the majority of people did not thoroughly studied. Yet, his assumption that you did not study the issue is arrogant. While I tend to agree with chessbibliophile more about Japan than with you, I concede that your arguments seem to be honest in this discussion and I did not find egregious fallacies here on your part, so, while I strongly disagree with you, I'm happy to hear your thoughts based on the current status of the discussion. However, Japan and nuking Japan is a side topic, so I think we should agree in disagreeing about it.
It was unnecessary to continue the war. Factually, Japan has lost, the invasion on Japan was continuing to enforce total victory. If the USA would have cared more about living beings than about victory, then it would have offered a peace to Japan on terms favorable to the USA and would have not pursued total victory, whatever the cost. Yet, however terrible it may sound, it is much better to lose soldiers on both sides than to kill innocents. If we accepted the principles you are advocating for, then we couldn't oject if country A nukes country B, because country B attacked first. And countries tend to be very creative about seing events as attacks against them. Russia, for instance believes that the Ukraine attacked it by killing Ukrainian citizens who happened to be Russians in Donetsk who no longer wanted their home to belong to the Ukraine. So, is it a rational approach to nuke the Ukraine because "it attacked first", if one truly believes this statement, be him the Russian president or high-ranking officials? I think that it is immoral to nuke a city, even if one genuinely believes that it is inside an aggressor country. To clarify: I don't believe that the Ukraine attacked Russia. But I know that many Russians genuinely believe that.
"We will never surrender, rather we will destroy our people in a great defensive battle than give in to the white devil. Banzai!"
We can see a similar attitude in the Ukraine right now. I would object nuking them nevertheless, whatever the political context is.
"Hirohito did make the every important decisions."
So, was he nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Or wasn't the push of that button an important decision?
Scientists were involved into military research for the pas 2500+ years. There is nothing new in the fact that scientists were working on the Manhattan project. However, during the research, conducting by a team of scientists, the majority of whom was concentrating mainly on their small chunk of research and not necessarily knowing what the big picture was, these people did not know what the exact discovery will be at the end and what its practical results will mean to mankind the the Earth's biosphere or the climate of the planet. When the bomb was tested, they fully realized how devastating it is and it was a normal human reaction to object against its use, when one became fully aware of exactly how destructive it was. Scientists are also human beings, with moral values and feelings, even if they participate in military research.
Actually, there is a lot of difference:
- nuklear weapons are causing ecological catastrophe as well
- it causes cancer rates to skyrocket not only in the country that is being attacked with thermonuclear force, but also other countries nearby, which did not commit the "sins" attributed to the country - Japan in this case
- it gives arguments for future uses of nuclear weapons, like "I'm just doing what XY did"
- carpet bombing a city is similar to nuclear bombing from the perspective of the inhabitants, but it is a localized genocide, it does not cause the death of people living elsewhere in the region
- killing people with rifles during a war is totally different, we should not ignore the facts that i.) rifles are targetted on individuals and one can choose to only target soldiers/fighters, while mass-destruction weapons are primarily killing civilians, ii.) rifles are not necessarily destroying all the infrastructure of a city, iii.) rifles are not causing geological catastrophe, iv.) rifles don't directly affect a whole region, only the localities where the fighting actively takes place
- it was not necessary to kill civilians, it was the choice of the USA taken on purpose, with the aim to quickly win the war, we denounce Putin for much less than that
@arzi Putin's army kills innocent civilians of another country as a side-effect of a war. The intention is to beat the other army and genocide is a price Putin is willing to pay in the process as a side-effect. Stalin unnecessarily terrorized and killed innocent civilians of his own country as the main objective. So, while we all agree that killing innocent civilians in order to win a war is morally undefensible and Putin is probably guilty of war crimes, it is quite different from what Stalin did both in nature and in scale.
Germany did occupied also France, little later. It is hard to play 3 apes, at least then.
Let´s change that sentence little bit, shall we? " let 1kg of iron fall on your head and then try the same with cotton (if you can after fall of iron -test), you will see the difference." Do I see? Am I still alive? Which one fall faster 1 kg iron or 1 kg cotton? Or 1 kg iron and 1 g feather? How about this last test is done in the Moon? What is the substance? Illusion made of light? Too technical.
" I don´t know what Karjakin has said so I can´t tell anything about his right"
Of course I`m. I´m also a lunatic troll from USA or whatever nation you represent. No one has tell what Karjakin has really said. I have asked what is the difference of opinion and the so called "hate talk" attack.
Quanber:"If you dont know what Karjakin has said why are you here ? This discussion here is about what Karjakin has said as an paid FSB Troll, and you have no idea ? So why are you here ??"
You didn´t know anything about Finland but still you were trying to teach me about Finland, why would you do such a stupid thing? Are you FSB troll or troll from North Korea? chessbibliophile wrote about Hirosihima and Nagasaki but you did not call him FSB troll? Why?
Quanber:"You have so many input here that it normally takes a hole group of FSB Trolls to produce them. Impressive ! But then again , impressive nonsense. Pure empty words."
Yes I have and you seem completely illiterate and a little stupid if you can see sentences in my texts in support of Putin or FSB. You made an innocent mistake about me and what I had supposedly said about Karjakin’s rights, but it is utter nonsense and idiotic on your part to continue making these attacks on me. Tells more about your low IQ and lack of information.
@arzi : "To Martas, is there any difference to kill 100 000 people with nuclear bomb or fire bombs? Or with rifles?"
Question is actually similar to - https://makerscientist.com/heavier-density-buoyancy/ - problem with the correct answer, let 1kg of iron fall on your foot and then try the same with cotton, you will see the difference.
This is the crux of the matter, the personal encounter, and the point where our organisation might really be in trouble. As it happens, there isn’t such a candidate. For that reason, FIDE is off the hook. It is lucky, but there is no need to throw your luck away, pretending reality of a scenario that is almost 100% hypothetical, and acting as if it was real. (I am not sure just how many players would have to give up their spot, for a Ukranian to qualify).
Imagine Karjakin, himself a former ukranian, blurting out this nationalistic nonsense, only to be replaced by a candidate from Ukraine. In a purely chess sense, I find his attack on Dubov almost as disqueting as the later, political escalation. Bullying a GM colleague.
Unlike a number a sports organisations, who can ban russian participation in general and still have a world-class competition, chess without Russia is second-rate. FIDE has realised that, and been very reluctant to go with the general flow.
Banning russians in general might spell the end of the organisation as a global entity. In some warped sense, Karjakin has come to the rescue. His behaviour has made it possible to do something severe enough to be recognized (made the headlines in my home country) while not making a complete mess of the chess scene in general.
" I don´t know what Karjakin has said so I can´t tell anything about his right"
If you dont know what Karjakin has said why are you here ? This discussion here is about what Karjakin has said as an paid FSB Troll, and you have no idea ? So why are you here ??
You have so many input here that it normally takes a hole group of FSB Trolls to produce them. Impressive ! But then again , impressive nonsense. Pure empty words.
That last sentence was not about you but Hirohito. It is quite funny way to give me first a message and then tell that you are not interesting in to read my answers. Wow!
How do you know I did not do that? Do you have some truth glasses fitted only for your eyes? Sell me one of those glasses, please? By the way, I don´t know what of my sentences made you so upset? Try to recover.
It is absurd and pitiful say something as a fact that is not true. I haven´t talked about Karjakin´s right to express himself freely. I don´t know what Karjakin has said so I can´t tell anything about his right. Our conversation was about JanneKejo. Try to be a little more specific in your claims, okay Quanber?
This is a pubic platform and any one who writes a comment here has to do so only after a thorough study of the issue and deep reflection. I shall be glad if you do so in future. I have not read your comments and I do not wish to do so now. I have no interest in scoring points with you, one way or the other. From my end this interaction is closed and I won’t be visiting this page again. My time is too precious to spend on futile argument.
Of course you can go on and on… Why not pay more attention to what is happening in Russia and Ukraine? Here is THE INSIDER’s look. Tragically, they have lost a courageous and talented journalist, Oksana Baulina in the war:
https://theins.ru/en
With Best Wishes,
It is impossible to discuss the war in Ukraine with a Russian who lives in Russia, or who is still dependent on being able to travel freely in Russia. Because he could face up to 15 years in prison for being critical of information coming from Putin.
Therefore, the hundreds of posts here ( arzi , lajosarpad in front) about Karjakin's right to express himself freely are completely absurd. We know with absolute certainty that Karjakin has no right to express himself freely, and we can not change that here in the West. We can not change the fact that everything that comes out of the man is Russian propaganda, because if it were not for that, he would not be able to express himself at all. Then he would be in prison without the opportunity to communicate with the outside world.
But we can say no to support for a war criminal like Putin, and that's what we do with quarantine. Which I personally think should be for life. Nor can we change that Karjakin's career is in ruins if all other top players make it clear that they are not participating in tournaments where he is allowed to line up. It has nothing to do with the quarantine, the individual chess player who chooses to cancel. And there will be a lot of them in the future.
Hirohito did make the every important decisions. To change from one strategy to the the other one was his decision aka from conquest strategy to defense strategy. You cannot justify yourself on the pretext that you are stupid, ignorant, or follow the advice of your subordinates.
Well, Einstein did tell to the US decision-makers about the nuclear weapons? Why? Did he want to use the weapon by himself only, in test laboratory? If they were so terrified about the bomb, why some of them were helping to make a bomb? "I invented a bomb, should I tell about my brain work to the King?"
The war ended instantly with nuclear weapon. How many U.S. soldiers would have died if the war should have continued for a year or two? How many Japanese soldiers and civilians would have died during this time? Do you have statistics for that very possible scenario? "We will never surrender, rather we will destroy our people in a great defensive battle than give in to the white devil. Banzai!"
Now you comment, “Is there any difference to kill 100 000 people with nuclear bomb or fire bombs? Or with rifles? The last one will take "little" longer.”
Clearly you have not understood what I have been trying to explain. It may be because I haven’t been able to write it clearly enough for you, my fault. It does not matter if 100 000 people are killed with the nuclear bomb, fire bombs or rifles. The outcome is the same with all people, dead as rock. With nuclear bomb it will be done faster than with rifles but still the outcome will be the same. Killing is the horrible thing. It does not depend on the way you kill and by what means you do that. It is still a nasty "business". Fire bombs do the same job, in a day or two, as a nuclear bomb, as 100,000 dead Tokyo citizens would tell you if they were alive.
Actually before the Pearl Harbour USA was not making any big decisions about other worlds and places. "The United States remained neutral from the outbreak of World War I in 1914 until 1917 when it joined the war as an "associated power" alongside the Allies of World War I." Only when Japan attacked on Pearl Harbour 1941 the attitude changed. Japan had begun imperialist activity as early as 1905, over 35 years before the United States wakened.