Russia and Belarus teams suspended from FIDE competitions

by ChessBase
3/16/2022 – FIDE has followed the recommendations of the International Olympic Committee and excluded the teams of Russia and Belarus from participating in all official FIDE tournaments.

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Press release, Wednesday, 16 Mar 2022

Taking into account the current recommendations of the IOC, the FIDE Council suspends the national teams of Russia and Belarus from participation in official FIDE tournaments until further notice. In the individual tournaments of the FIDE World Championship cycle, players from these countries will be able to participate under the FIDE flag.

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arzi arzi 3/21/2022 02:35
News:"Russia's number one channel accuses a newsreader of treason - 20 years in prison?"
News:"Proposal from the United States: Ukraine could defend itself with Russia's own weapons system.

How can media accuses a newsreader of treason? Yes, it is highly possible, if the media is under the control of Putin and his friends.
If Ukraine gets those weapons from Turkey, then one could really say that one's own dogs were biting.
arzi arzi 3/21/2022 06:43
News:"Nearly 15,000 arrested in Russia in anti-war protests...Anti-war opinions could lead to kicks in Russia...Ukraine War, Day 26: Russia's elite allegedly considering overthrow Putin..."

So many people are arrested because of the little misunderstanding in Ukraine? Of course people will be fired if they talk about a war that doesn’t even exist. If the rich and famous in Russia lose even more of their wealth then Putin will be fucked.

News:"Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyi, as usual, issued a message to the Ukrainians this morning. In his speech, he mocked Russian troops, saying that the soldiers sent to the "military exercise" have found themselves on the Ukrainian side. - They all say that when they're imprisoned.

- Russian forces have been searching for the "Nazis" they invented for 25 days and still haven't found them. They are looking for and cannot find Ukrainians who would greet them with flowers."

No Nazis? No mass destruction weapons? No flowers to Russian soldiers invading the country? Someone has lied about all this, who in the world could do that?
Leavenfish Leavenfish 3/20/2022 06:14
@Jacob woge - I am not going to post the link (to do so might be in violation of the rules) but if you search for "The Diplomat" and "Everything Your Know About Clausewitz Is Wrong", you will find a delightful article about the long standing issue with the translations and parsing out the things like the difference in 'by' vs 'with'.

Putin seems intent on following the path laid out by Clausewitz as 'Absolute War'. That is not surprising. As a general (or a megalomaniac 'head of state...), you ultimately have one 'hammer' and to one who has that hammer, everything, all too often, begins to like a 'nail'... .
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/20/2022 01:32
@Aighearach since Leavenfish accused me of being a troll, it is not difficult to understand that you referred me in your comment. Too bad that you are lying on many levels:

- "speaks out against decency and humanity in every circumstance": false. I have always spoken up against human rights abuses and I have never claimed that decency or humanity would be bad
- "openly espouses the greatness of nationalism, and superiority of certain people's over others": false. I am advocating for nationalism, but only moderate nationalism. Moderate nationalism accepts the bond between the members of a nation one is part of and respects similar bonds of other nations. I have never said that a people is superior to another. You lie.
- "believe them that they support hatred, bigotry, ethno-nationalism, and even genocide" you lie. I have been speaking up against hatred or collective guilt. I have speaken up against bigotry. I have speaken up against genocide.
- "And believe them that they feel very morally superior in these beliefs." I did not claim that I'm morally superior because of my political views (that you fail to identify)
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/20/2022 01:31
@Leavenfish Unfortunately your attitude towards me has no sign of any willingness towards a civilized conversation.

"Also, you even manage to misquote Clausewitz. The actual quote is "War is the continuation of policy with other means" Totally different. Go have another cup of coffee and do not expect me to dignify further comments with a response."

"war is politics by other means"

It is not totally different. If you were honest for a second, you would admit that the two are the same in essence. As about your version, it is also imprecise, since it lacks the word "mere" as Jacob Woge pointed out.

I have written it from memory and it is good that you aim to increase precision by copy-pasting the actual quote. It is too bad that this otherwise good conduct is also used as a personal attack against me.

As about your lack of response to my comments, actually I'm happy to see higher quality comments and since you are a hostile person, I will not miss your comments.
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/20/2022 01:30
@Leavenfish "No. I have said so repeatedly regarding individual Russians. 'Teams' which 'represent' a country are a different matter. Do you just need to stoke arguments? Do you have nothing better to do? Perhaps you get off on trolling people?"

It was a genuine question on my part. A simple "no" is a full and adequate answer. The accusations that follow the answer are unnecessary and their single aim is to discredit my person.

You surely did not appreciate my gesture in the other thread, namely https://en.chessbase.com/post/fide-president-arkady-dvorkovich-speaks-out-against-the-war-in-ukraine

where you have falsefully accused me of whataboutism and I have given you the benefit of the doubt and the chance to concede that I was not bringing up numbers about Iraq as you falsely claimed.

Since you continued your dishonest way of discussion here and you have never shown the honesty necessary in the other thread to concede that you were wrong, I decided to expose it:

1. In the other thread, another person brought up the Iraqi war and my response to that was that I denounce all war crimes, the ones committed by Russia now and the ones committed by the USA earlier. This is not whataboutism, since a. I did not bring the Iraqi war to the table, b. I did not aim to change the focus of the discussion and c. I merely reacted to arguments others brought into the discussion anyway. Yet, you accused me with whataboutism, in a dishonest and ill mannered way and I very amiably have given you the chance to gracefully back off from your conduct. You have not done so so far.

2. I have asked you a genuine question which should not be considered as provocative in this thread. Your ill-mannered and univilized response to it, which assumes me to be a troll is unacceptable.
Jacob woge Jacob woge 3/20/2022 03:10
Mr. Arpad took the words right out of my mouth. The first chapter of Clausewitz is here:

https://oll.libertyfund.org/page/clausewitz-war-as-politics-by-other-means

(In the url, “as” replaces the “is” of the text itself. Not the author’s fault, I should note, to pre-empt any further sticklery).

The exact quote form Section 24 reads:

“24. WAR IS A MERE CONTINUATION OF POLICY BY OTHER MEANS”

(Italics copied from source)

The word “mere” indicates, to my understanding, “simply”, or “nothing else but”. Then again, mein Englisch ist nicht so toll. Im Originalsprache (Vom Kriege):

„Der Krieg ist eine bloße Fortsetzung der Politik mit anderen Mitteln.“

To leave out “bloße”, or “mere”, would be a misquote.

Yes, murder, as is well known, can be politics. It is definitely not chess.
Aighearach Aighearach 3/20/2022 03:07
When a person consistently, over the past decade, speaks out against decency and humanity in every circumstance, every context, openly espouses the greatness of nationalism, and superiority of certain people's over others, instead of guessing that maybe they're a troll or like arguments, maybe it is simpler and more reasonable to simply believe their words; believe them that they support hatred, bigotry, ethno-nationalism, and even genocide. And believe them that they feel very morally superior in these beliefs.
northwolf northwolf 3/19/2022 05:47
temove countries flags from any individual represantation.any gaming platform.
northwolf northwolf 3/19/2022 05:44
gens una sumus without wests hypocrisy
Leavenfish Leavenfish 3/19/2022 03:59
@lajosarpad. No. I have said so repeatedly regarding individual Russians. 'Teams' which 'represent' a country are a different matter. Do you just need to stoke arguments? Do you have nothing better to do? Perhaps you get off on trolling people?

About the rest - words ARE important and that is my point. To use them loosely (as in conflating 'war' with 'politics' ) is to water down their impact/seriousness.

Also, you even manage to misquote Clausewitz. The actual quote is "War is the continuation of policy with other means" Totally different. Go have another cup of coffee and do not expect me to dignify further comments with a response.
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/19/2022 03:10
@Leavenfish do you support the idea that Russian players should not play anywhere?

As about wars being politics, Carl von Clausewitz famously said that "was is politics by other means".

So, I would argue that wars are representing the subset of politics in which the tools are weapons rather than arguments.
dragggom dragggom 3/19/2022 11:55
Very good the decision of the fide, at that moment has to give solidarity to the Ukrainian people
JanneKejo JanneKejo 3/18/2022 10:09
Stupid.
Leavenfish Leavenfish 3/18/2022 04:23
@Jacob woge - As I am fond of saying: you can sit on a rock and call it a chair…but that does not make it a chair in any normal sense of the word. One might refer to unprovoked WAR and killing as “Politics”…but it becomes Orwellian ‘doublespeak’ and only serves to obscure the truth. One might as well refer to going into your local liquor store and shooting the clerk to get control over some wine as….’politics’ instead of homicide/murder.
Jacob woge Jacob woge 3/18/2022 09:02
“I just really hope it will not come to the discrimination of the individuals.”

If it does, and it might, FIDE will have to abandon its slogan.

“This is not about politics...”

In a discourse on separating chess and politics, this assault is one or the other. And it’s definitely not chess.

Contrary to chess, Politics does not have to be civilized to still be politics. You have a goal, and you pursue it. Only when it comes to a suicidal approach would I consider relaxing on the terminology.
Michael Jones Michael Jones 3/17/2022 03:46
Chess has long held a status in Russian culture and society that it does in few other places in the world. The country basks in the reflected glory of its players' achievements, and it is right that it should not be allowed to do so while it commits war crimes against its neighbour. Let the players play, but don't let the country be associated with their achievements.
Leavenfish Leavenfish 3/17/2022 03:17
@HolaAmigo - Yes, separate 'sport from politics' (but of course this is unprovoked WAR...not mere 'politics') is fine. But 'teams' 'representing' an active pariah country is quite another thing! Those should be disallowed until said predator comes back into the worlds good graces....and frankly that should not be an easy thing to do. You can't just easily 'forget' something like we see happening.

Even the 'ROC' codename for Russia at the Olympics I personally think is a stupid attempt at a 'slap on the wrist'. Everyone knows it's still TEAM Russia. Individuals not under an active predators flag and not representing a predator team, yes, there is a good case for allowing them to compete.
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/17/2022 10:16
This is an understandable move. I just really hope it will not come to the discrimination of the individuals.
HolaAmigo HolaAmigo 3/17/2022 10:01
Despite Fide having a russian president!
Years ago the claim was to separate sports and politics. But then came Moscu 1980, Atlanta 1984 olympiads, and the chess olympiads in Haifa. It is a shame we cannot leave sport alone.
fixpont fixpont 3/17/2022 08:39
@Denix: they cant participate in team events like Chess Olympiad only in individual events
Denix Denix 3/17/2022 08:04
Players from Russia and Belarus will be able to participate under the FIDE flag- I almost missed this.
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