Garry Kasparov on Russia’s Attack on Ukraine

by ChessBase
3/10/2022 – Garry Kasparov has long been an avowed opponent of Vladimir Putin, and in 2015 he issued a strong warning about Putin and his political aims in his book "Winter is Coming". In an interview with the American TV programme "Amanpour and Company", Kasparov now talks about the war in Ukraine, Putin's political rise, the failure of the West to oppose Putin and possible sanctions against Russia. Passionate, informed and eloquent.

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lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/21/2022 09:58
@chessbibliophile (about the Donbass) was the Ukrainian government performing some military operations in the Donbass that resulted in the killing of soldiers and civilians, destroying property? Surely. So, the statement that the Ukraine waged war against Russians is true. What could have been the alternatives? It could have accepted their independence (unacceptable for the Ukraine) or, autonomy to the Donbass, while the region would have remained inside the country. I consider the latter approach to be a peaceful way to attempt resolving the conflict, yet, the Ukraine was rather fighting.
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/21/2022 09:56
@chessbibliophile Secondary sources are historical sources, which are examples of practical application of Islam. Yet, you consider me racist for criticizing an ideology, but you did not say a word so far about the execution of Apostates according to Shariah law, applicable in Pakistan, as well as blasphemy laws. Also, you have chosen to completely ignore all examples of atrocities that I brought up. I have spent a large amount of time into putting these together. In my society we consider to be a lack of debate culture if one completely ignores honest reasoning based on facts. The majority of the victims have a different skin color than mine, but you still call me racist, even though it's obvious that I worry about those atrocities, while you have shown no signs of being worried about them. Instead, you speak about "my poison". But my "poison" does not marry 6-year-old girls. My "poison" does not terrorize anybody. My "poison" is not killing apostates. My "poison" does not restrict women's freedom of movement, marriage, testimony in the same manner as these freedom are guaranteed for men. My "poison" does not command women to inherit half of the amount of men. My "poison" is a truthful and factual analysis and knowledge-sharing about Islam. If my criticism of Islam makes its apologists compelled to attack my person rather than my argument, then I consider that to be a compliment.
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/21/2022 09:56
@chessbibliophile "I happen to be far more knowledgeable on the history of Islam, the life of Prophet Muhammad and the complex history of Hindus & Muslims in India and Pakistan before partition and after partition. "

The primary sources of Islam are Islamic works, mainly the Quran, the hadith collections and the Sirat, strangely-enough, you did not mention. You have never quoted these. Instead, you have ignored my quotes. For example, Quran 8:60 explicitly commands Muslims to terrorize unbelievers with whatever means they can. The historical context of this verse is the battle of Badr, but the text does not specify space, time or any other condition, it is a universal and general command to terrorize unbelievers. Let me quote it fully here, so, even though you ignore it, other readers of this conversation will know what you ignore:

"And let not those who disbelieve think they will escape. Indeed, they will not cause failure [to Allah].
And prepare against them whatever you are able of power and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them whom you do not know [but] whom Allah knows. And whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be fully repaid to you, and you will not be wronged." 8:59-60

The verses above prove that Islamic terrorism will raise its head even if all unjust behavior ceases to exist towards Muslims. To clarify: this does not justify any unjust behavior towards them. But, instead of suggesting whatever action you may want to assume, this is merely the factually pointing out of the fact that the core doctrine of Islam commands terrorism and conquer and considers a 7th century caravan robber to be the role model. It is true that oppression and discrimination fuels any animosity of the victim group, but, in the case of the followers of Islam, the religious doctrine commands terrorism. There are moderate Muslims, but there is no moderate Islam.
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/21/2022 09:55
@chessbibliophile Saying that I am racist is a horribly fallacious way of arguing as well as saying that I'm "Islamophobic", because, even if I'm the evil monster you try to suggerate, even then my arguments could be valid. So, regardless of how evil you think I am, you could just deal with my arguments. If you honestly believe that you are right about Islam, then you could just deal with my arguments and show me why you think I'm wrong. Instead of that, you try to discredit my person. I'm not unempathic. I know how difficult must be your situation, while you try to defend the undefensible, while you try to protect a religion that actively supports marriage with a 6-year-old girl, actively promotes terrorism, antisemitism and conquering, as well as oppressing or killing anyone who disagrees with the religion and regarding women as second-class people. It must be really difficult both morally and intellectually to defend such a religion from criticism, so I quite understand why you avoid providing proper arguments.

Second, you directly contradict your earlier arrogant remark of "I never decline a challenge in intellectual debate, not even yours."

where, while making sure that you let me know that you consider yourself to be superior, you have promised that you will accept my challenge. Should I conclude that the "never" above means "sometimes"?
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/21/2022 09:54
@chessbibliophile (about Islam) if you check the earlier comments, you will see that my first comment about Islam was a response to Saurav4000, when he asked me about it. You disliked the fact that Saurav4000 and myself agree about Islam and started to argue against our position. I have responded you. These were the events preceding your comment according to which I have lost track of the topic. So, if it was wrong on my part to answer you about Islam, because it is off-topic, then how come that your arguing about Islam was on-topic? So, if you speak about Islam, that's okay. But, if I respond to it, then I have lost track of the topic and I am racist. Hypocrisy.

"I do not deal with Islamophobia, not to mention racist remarks that flagrantly violate ChessBase Rules on Readers’ Comments. "

First of all, I would like to know what was racist from my comments. Do you have a quote? Or did you make that up? To clarify: Islam is not a race. It is an ideology. You are of a different race though than me, but I do not really care about your skin color. It is you, who brought up race as a topic at all in our discussion about Islam. So, from the two of us, you cared about some aspects regarding to race, while I did not. So, it is quite dishonest to insinuate that I'm racist.
chessbibliophile chessbibliophile 3/21/2022 06:10
@lajosarpad,
We are on page No.3 of ChessBase News. You have lost track of the original topic, Kasparov on Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.
I do not deal with Islamophobia, not to mention racist remarks that flagrantly violate ChessBase Rules on Readers’ Comments.
I happen to be far more knowledgeable on the history of Islam, the life of Prophet Muhammad and the complex history of Hindus & Muslims in India and Pakistan before partition and after partition.
So spare me your poisonous stuff. From my end this chapter is closed. I am not going to see what you write here.
chessbibliophile chessbibliophile 3/21/2022 05:57
@WillScarlett and @ lajosarpad,
To return to Donbas, one question remains. Both Donbas and Kharkiv are geographically close to Russia. People in both places have similar ethnic and linguistic traits with their counterparts in Russia. However, Donbas looks towards Russia and Kharkiv towards the West. This issue is examined in the book,
“The Donbas Conflict in the Ukraine: Elites, Protest and Partition” by Daria Platonova She also offers facts and figures on the question of support of this region for joining Russia.
I shall mention three other books of interest:
1)In War Time: Stories from Ukraine by Tim Judah
2)Armies of Russia’s War in Ukraine by Mark Galeotti
3)The war in Ukraine’s Donbas: Origins, Context and the Future Edited by David R. Marples
Now that the invasion and occupation of Donbas by Russia is in full swing, there would be fewer takers in Donbas for “free and voluntary” accession to Russia. Check out Meduza: Real Russia Today : https://meduza.io/en
P.S.: For good measure I am mentioning one more book and it deals with Crimea.
“Russia’s “Hybrid” Warfare and the Annexation of Crimea” by Kent De Benedictis
chessbibliophile chessbibliophile 3/21/2022 05:56
@WillScarlett and @ lajosarpad,
Sorry about the belated response.
This relates to your posts on the Donbas conflict. It is misleading to suggest that the Ukraine government has been killing the Russians in the Donbas region and that they have been deprived of the right to self-determination.
The number of Russians in this region seeking accession to Russia even in 2014 was less than half of the population. The demand for accession came essentially from the elite who saw a loss of their privileges when a new government came to power in Kyiv. The separatists received military support from Kremlin and for Putin it was a low cost war.
The Ukrainian army perforce had to fight against the insurgency. However, the participation of Ukrainian ultra nationalists in the conflict complicated the issue. Rogue militias like the Azov Battalion and their acts did damage the Ukrainian cause:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMMXuKB0BoY

There was a lot of blood letting by both sides in this area and many civilians killed.
The insanity of the war is captured here:
http://inter.pyramidefilms.com/pyramidefilms-international-catalogue/donbass.html
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/20/2022 08:16
@chessbibliophile But, according to you, I should read about Pakistan, because I do not know enough. Tell me, chessBibliophile, how many times have you read the Quran? On what grounds do you state that I'm intolerant? How come that you ignore the fact that I speak up for Muslim victims as well and my criticism is directed to Islam, a world view that I consider to be extremist? How can you reconcile with the quotes I have provided from the Quran? That's just a small sample, I have a large collection of quotes. Do you have any arguments that would justify the arrogance you have displayed when you said "even yours"?

Terrorism is commanded by Islamic doctrine, by the highest authorities possible, Allah and Muhammad. How can you ignore that even though I have shown you a few quotes?
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/20/2022 08:16
41. Since it is very difficult for a Hindu to obtain a digital id, lots of Hindu people "do not exist", so they are completely unprotected.
42. Since Hindus are even more discriminated against than other religions, many Hindus convert into Christianity or Buddhism in the hope of having greater security.
43. There are separate representation for Hindus and Christians in the political realm and Hindus and Christians can only vote for their religious representation. They are complaining that they are left out of the country's legislation.
44. Once a Hindu mob destroyed the Babri mosque, built in the 16th century. As a backlash, 5 Hindu temples were destroyed in Kharachi and 25 Christian temples in Sindh.
45. Muslim mobs robbed and damaged Hindu-owned stores in Sukur
46. In Quetta, Muslim mobs were attacking Hindu homes.
47. In 2005 32 Hindus were killed by the authorities.
48. In 1947 the ratio of Hindus in Pakistan was 23%. That figure is 1.5% nowadays
49. In July 2010 60 Hindus were attacked in Kharachi.
50. In 2014 a policeman, who guarded a Hindu temple was shot dead.
51. Since March 2005 209 Sufi was murdered and 560 were wounded when they visited Sufi places of worship. The perpetrators usually were Salafists.
52. The vast majority of the country is Sunni. I discussed Islam with a Shia person last year, but he asked for anonimity because he was cautious because of Sunni terrorism.
53. According to a report from 2014, in Pakistan 1000 people are forcibly converted into "the right sect" of Islam yearly.
54. On October 12 2012 a 16-year-old Christian boy, Ryan Stanton was forced into hiding, because he allegedly violated the blasphemy laws. He later said that the reason for his persecution was that he refused to become Muslim. Rinkle Kumari (19), Lata Kumari and Asha Kumari were forcibly converted into Islam. In front of the court they said that they would rather live with their parents than their "husbands".
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/20/2022 08:16
32. In August 2006 in a village near Lahore a 35-men Muslim mob attacked a temple and a few apartments, desecrating Bibles and attacking Christians, seriously wounding three persons in the process.
33. In 22nd September 2006 Shahid Masid was arrested for the alleged violation of blasphemy laws.
34. On August 1st 2009 almost 40 houses and a temple was burnt to the ground at Gorja, because, according to the mob, a Quran was burnt. The police was passively watching, while 8 persons were burnt alive, including 4 women and a 7-year-old child. 18 additional persons were wounded.
35. In 2012 Rimsha Masih was arrested for allegedly violating the blasphemy laws, but was released a few weeks later in view of international pressure
36. On March 9th Sawan Masih was charged with violating the blasphemy laws. An angry mob burnt 200 apartments and 2 temples. Masih was sentenced to death the next year.
37. On April 2014 a Christian couple, Shafqat Emmanuel and Shagufta Kausar were sentenced to death for blasphemy
38. It is worth to mention that the blasphemy laws only protect Islamic scripture.
39. Ever since 2012 Pakistan does not register Hindu marriages. If a marriage is unregistered, then the couple can be charged with fornication anytime, which is a grave sin according to Shariah law, so Pakistan can practically charge and punish any Hindu for being a Hindu
40. Hindu wives are being kidnapped and forced into Muslim marriages. Since according to Islam, in marriages "silence is concent" and the Hindu women are not married according to Pakistani laws (see point 39), they can be forced into an Islamic marriage.
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/20/2022 08:15
23. In June 2002 Mukhtaran Bibi was gang-raped and, according to a tribal decision, she was displayed naked in front of 300 men. She tried to find justice in the judicial system. After 10 years of trialing, 5 of the perpetrators were found "not guilty", the sixth was sentenced for life in prison. She is discriminated to this day in Pakistan, she was arrested in her home, she was arrested illegaly and she was harrassed by the authorities.
24. Religious minorities are often facing violence. Usually religious extremists are blamed for such actions, but the punishments according to the laws are not harsh-enough to discourage this.
25. There were several pogroms against the Ahmadiyyah, that religion was practically banned since 1984.
26. Ayub Masih, a Christian was sentenced to death in 1998 for "blasphemy", based on the charge of his neighbor, who accused him for supporting Salman Rushdie (whose death was desirable for a very large mob when he has written the Satanic Verses). Luckily, Masih could prove that his neighbor wanted to get rid of him in order to get his lands. But... Should a person who supports Rushdie die?!
27. On September 25th 2002 two terrorists entered the building of the Association for Peace and Justice in Karachi, separated Muslims from Christians and shot 8 Christians dead.
28. On October 28th 2001 in Lahore the mujahedeen killed 15 Christians in a temple.
29. On September 25th 2002 unkown perpetrators killed 7 people on a Christian charity event in the central industrial area of Kharachi. According to the police, the mouths of the victims were sealed.
30. In the november of 2005 3000 militarists destroyed three temples because, according to them Yousaf Masih (see point 26) violated blasphemy laws.
31. In February of 2006, due to the cartoons that appeared in the Danish Jyllands-Posten, riots started, that targeted Christian churches and schools, displaced many people, but fortunately there were no casualties.
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/20/2022 08:14
10. In theory, Pakistan supports the freedom of the press, but in practice anything critical of the government or the military is censored.
11. Since the September of 2001 61 journalists were killed last time I checked, it's possible that the number has increased by now
12. Multiple websites were banned in the country for violating its blasphemy laws, among others, Youtube.
13. The qisas-based punishment (eye for an eye) is allowed in the country
14. While the constitution recognizes women as citizens with equal rights, the country also has religious laws that do not grant women the same rights as for men and the religious laws usually override the constitution.
15. According to Human Rights Watch, 70-90% of women had been exposed to some abuse in their family.
16. Authorities usually do not even bother investigating cases of abuses inside the family
17. Pakistan has a problem with forced marriages
18. According to Human Rights Watch there is a rape every two hours in Pakistan
19. In recent decades several thousands of "honor killings" were committed. These murders are in "defense of the honor of the family", by killing a female family member for non-Islamic behavior
20. On October 9th 2012 pakistani Taliban attempted to murder 15 year old Malala Yousafzay, who has spoken up for the education of girls and women
21. On 4th July 2012 Fareeda Kokikhel, a well-known feminist was shot dead from a car
22. In 2007, Kainat Sommro, than 13-year-old was kidnapped and gang-raped. The community denounced her family because it didn't perform an honor killing on her afterwards. The perpetrators were found "not guilty" and she was prosecuted for "having sex before marriage".
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/20/2022 08:14
@chessbibliophile "You have to read books, journals and visit web sites dedicated to Pakistan to see and understand what is happening in that country."

I know Islam. Pakistan partially adopted Shariah laws. It has a state religion and renders apostates to be executed. What else do you need to know?

Some facts about Pakistan:

1. The name "Pakistan" means "the land of the pure". Which reminds me about the "Übermensch".
2. The constitution from 1973 renders Islam to be the state religion and states that each and every law must be in line with the Quran and the Sunnah. So, knowing what the Quran contains is something you cannot avoid if you actually want to understand Pakistani laws.
3. According to polls conducted by PEW, pakistani people have a stronger religious identity than national identity and the majority supports the idea that Shariah laws would be 100% implemented
4. The second Prime Minister of Pakistan, Khawaja Nazimuddin said that he does not believe that religion is a private affair and he also does not believe that all the citizens of the Islamic State (not to be confounded with ISIS) should have the same rights.
5. The founder of Pakistan, Muhammad Ali Jinnah stated that Hindus will gradually stop being Hindus and will become Muslims.
6. Pakistan's first election was held in 2013 and Kaffirs could only aim for "non-Muslim" positions. It is true that the second-class nature of non-Muslims is less severe nowadays than in 2013, but it is still a non-enviable position to be in, to say the least
7. The majority of laws in the country are secular in nature, but Islamic law takes precedence
8. According to Foreign Policy Pakistan is a failed state, and it ranked Pakistan the 10th worst country in the world in 2010.
9. In 2015 the jurisdiction banned Ataf Hussain's speeches. Since "operation cleanup" (!).
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/20/2022 08:14
@chessbibliophile "If you still would like to have a debate with modern members of the Muslim community, here is one place you can try"

I encountered the quote above from you, so I challenged you for a debate. I wish to prove with factual basis, focusing on Islamic doctrine and historical examples that your point is false. Unless you retract it. As about who else I am to debate, it is my choice.

"India is a subcontinent inhabited by 1.4 billion people. So you can’t say, the whole of India “may be complicit in egregious crimes”. It is not."

Straw man fallacy. You misrepresent my position and then attack your misrepresentation. I wouldn't say I was surprised. I obviously meant "India" as a country (not its people, nor the subcontinent) that you have spoken about. I have assumed that India as a country does not punish perpetrators belonging to the majority as it should. If I was wrong, then my mistake was believing you at face value. Should I question everything you have said about India? Or can I assume honesty on your part? If I can assume honesty, then don't misrepresent my words. If I cannot assume honesty, then say so openly.

"How much of your kind of Islam do you see in that paper? "

I don't believe that reading "Dawn" or any other newspaper would change my view about Islam. My view about Islam is mainly influenced by two Islamic experts: Allah and Mohamed. It is not "my kind" of Islam. Islam has a single Quran, accepted by all the sects. Read that before you start speaking about its content. Then you will not ashame yourself.
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/20/2022 08:14
@chessbibliophile "Why are you so obsessed with Islam? It’s morbid, just like anti-Semiticism."

The fallacy you use is called "false comparison". Anti-semitism is the hatred against Jews for their racial origin or religion. Criticism of Islam is an intellectual position of diametrically opposing an ideology that one considers to be destructive. My criticism of Islam is not directed against any human being. So, likening the criticism of Islam with anti-Semitism is quite a fallacious equivocation. I accord you the benefit of the doubt and I shall assume for now that you do not know what is Islam about. I speak about Islam and not about Muslims. This is an important distinction.

"Give these theories of Islam as a menace conquering human civilization their rightful place, the BIN."

My country waged war for 400 years against Islamic expansion and was oppressed for 150 years. Have you ever read the Quran? Do you have any basis for the statement above? Can you factually describe Muhammad's life? Do you have ANY basic knowledge about Islam? Maybe you could consider reading the book before you analyse it. It would be an intellectually honest position.

Also, you question my tolerance. Where did I advocate anything intolerant?! All that I did was the honest and factual description of Islam. You did nothing. 0. Zilch. You have not read anything about Islam. Yet, you start lecturing others, who took a significant amount of time and invested it into studying it. You consistently ignore the fact that Pakistan has a state religion and has a law which executes apostates. You should do your homework first and read the basic works. And then, if you disagree, you can make your case. Your advocating for Islam lacks any factual basis. You have shown 0 (!) quotes or sources that would directly challenge my arguments. Therefore, all your argumentation so far regarding Islam was hollow.
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/20/2022 08:13
@chessbibliophile "I can cite passage after passage in all major religions pointing out that they are not consistent with universal human values as we understand them today."

Sure thing, we find violence in virtually all religions. But Islam is special, because, with the exception of Islam: I know no religion which commands (!) believers to violently subjugate (!) unbelievers independently of space, time or context. I do not know any religion which consider a person who married a 6 year old girl as the main role-model. I do not know any religion which forbade adopting children because the main prophet wanted his cousin, wife of his adopted son for himself. I do not know of any other religion which considers novelty to be a "sin". I know no other religion that focuses more on unbelievers than on believers. I know no other religion, whose prophet, after annihilating a tribe and kidnapping a woman that was made a sex slave, forced her into marriage.

So, while I do not question anyone's right to be a Muslim, just like I don't question anyone's right to be a nazi, I maintain criticism of destructive ideologies.
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/20/2022 08:13
@chessbibliophile You say that I'm obsessed with Islam. No. I study destructive, criminal ideologies in general. The reason for my studying Islam was that in a closed intellectual correspondence forum a politician claimed that Islam is just another Abrahamic religion and it would pose no threat if it would appear en masse in our societies. So I have taken the time and read the Quran for the first time, in 2015. I was shocked to see its content. I'm not saying this lightly: Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto were better reads than the Quran, yet Mein Kampf and the Communist Manifesto are despicable reads. Reading the Quran, seeing the many fallacies, the primitive hatred and incitement for holy violence, the primitivity of the very language of that book was making it a horrible read, that felt like a punishment. I thought I will not read anything worse in my life, I thought it is impossible. And then I have read the Islamic hadith collections, which had the violence in the Quran put on steroids, but there were non-violent parts as well, such as the recommendation to drink camel urine (the WHO was arguing against that in view of the dangers MERS, Middle-Eastern Respiratory Syndrome, a coronavirus type has an increased chance of spreading if people drink camel urine based on Muhammad's recommendation). Since then I have read the Quran four more times.
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/20/2022 08:12
@chessbibliophile "Did I come and say here any time that Islam is a wonderful religion and the Quran is the greatest book that every one should read."

No. You stated that the "desire for revenge" in Muslims will cease to exist once justice is met. It is obvious that you are wrong about that. There is and will be Islamic terrorism all over the world even if all unjust behavior towards Muslims would magically cease to exist. The reason for this is that Islamic doctrine commands the violent subjugation of "unbelievers" and their role model was a person who committed himself terroristic acts. It was I, who advocated the reading of the Quran. And I maintain that it is a must-read for all intellectuals, especially if they start to debate about it.

"My concern is always for freedom and dignity for every citizen, whatever be his or her community."

We agree on that. But ideologies are not persons. Ideologies have no human rights. Ideologies can be freely criticized based on their content. I might have some very bad ideas about the world, although I hope it's not the case. If you criticize my ideas, that is by no means "oppression" and is not violating my human rights. Destructive ideologies, such as Islam, National-Socialism or Communism, among others need to be exposed. I cannot help but notice that you never quoted from Islamic basic texts so far and I foresee which verses would you quote from the Quran if you would change your position and start to take facts related to religious doctrine in consideration. The bad news are that it is almost certain that I have an answer to anything that you could come up with, I have vast knowledge of opening theory in this game. I have studied this ideology for years and have very solid knowledge about it. So, I would welcome if you would actually quote the Islamic doctrine in support of whatever position you have about Islam.
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/20/2022 08:12
@chessbibliophile Your statement I am debating with is as follows:

"When the demand for justice is met, there will be no desire for revenge on the part of Muslim minority groups, especially, the impressionable young."

So, for anyone gifted with basic understanding of the text one reads, it is obvious that you have spoken about some "desire for revenge", which obviously means that there IS "desire for revenge" now. Then, you say that

"The idea is to create a fear psychosis among the Hindus constantly telling them that there is a conspiracy against them by these Muslims."

, so there IS some factual basis for worrying about Islamic terrorism/revenge. Whether we call the "revenge", terrorism or not, that's another matter. The phenomenon we are speaking about when it comes to Islamic terrorism is the desire to commit violent acts by members of the Islamic community against "nonbelievers" and "hypocrites". It is obvious that not all members of the community desires to commit such acts, but there are people who do have such desire and this desire is in line with the teachings of Islam. You consistently ignore that Islam encourages such atrocities, even commands them.

"I never decline a challenge in intellectual debate, not even yours."

Do I sense some arrogance on your part when you use the word "even"? If so, such arrogance would only be justified if you would follow the suggestions of your own nickname and obtain some factual knowledge about Islam before you start debating about it.
chessbibliophile chessbibliophile 3/20/2022 03:19
@lajosarpad,
India is a subcontinent inhabited by 1.4 billion people. So you can’t say, the whole of India “may be complicit in egregious crimes”. It is not.
As for Pakistan, You have to know a lot more about that country to make these statements. For starters, at least check out their daily newspaper “Dawn”:
https://www.dawn.com/
How much of your kind of Islam do you see in that paper?
You have to read books, journals and visit web sites dedicated to Pakistan to see and understand what is happening in that country.
By that, I do not mean the official propaganda of their government. But the voices of sane people who make a sober assessment of life in their land.
Pakistan has several people, Punjabis, Sindhis, Mahajirs, not to mention Afghans, Baluchis and so on. Their identities are by no means determined by religion.
Islam is NOT the only force governing the hearts and minds of people in Pakistan. Many young people there are well-informed and they know about their rights. Especially, women. The older generations have fought against dictatorships and resisted interference by the clergy in their personal affairs. Pakistan is not a Mullah-Moulvi Raj as made out to be. It is a land made of several languages and races with a lot of ambiguity and ambivalence.

P.S.:You have mentioned in passing the scriptures, the Vedas. According to “Sanatana Dharma” they are the Revelation, They are THE WORD, not composed by any mortal. But please do not read the English translation of the Rig Veda. It’s terrible.
chessbibliophile chessbibliophile 3/20/2022 02:45
@lajosarpad,
Why are you so obsessed with Islam? It’s morbid, just like anti-Semiticism.
Give these theories of Islam as a menace conquering human civilization their rightful place, the BIN.
There is a beautiful piece of writing, “Tolerance” by E.M. Forster in his collection of essays, “Two Cheers for Democracy”. If you wish, you can take a look.
(the same text is given in two different pdf formats)
https://archive.org/details/tolerance-essay-by-e.-m.-forster

http://whs-hs.weatherfordisd.com/ourpages/auto/2013/11/20/64004200/Tolerance.pdf

If you still would like to have a debate with modern members of the Muslim community, here is one place you can try:
https://muslimreformmovement.org/

Mind you, I take any revisionist interpretation of religion with a bit of scepticism. So your choice, really.
chessbibliophile chessbibliophile 3/20/2022 02:39
@ lajosarpad,
You did not notice that I put the words, “Islamic terrorism” and that, specifically in the Indian context in quotation marks because this is the term that the Hindutva groups regularly use for any misguided attack of revenge by a few Muslims. The idea is to create a fear psychosis among the Hindus constantly telling them that there is a conspiracy against them by these Muslims.
I never decline a challenge in intellectual debate, not even yours. Did I come and say here any time that Islam is a wonderful religion and the Quran is the greatest book that every one should read.
And what special interest should I have in defending that religion or the Quran? I am not even a member of that community.
My concern is always for freedom and dignity for every citizen, whatever be his or her community.
My interest is in comparative religion and I do not love or hate any religion. At the same time I do not accept the standard clichés like “All religions are the same. They all preach peace, brotherhood and love of God.” Unfortunately, this is not true.
I can cite passage after passage in all major religions pointing out that they are not consistent with universal human values as we understand them today.
In India there are two definitions of secularism:
1)Respect for all religions, clever phrasing by political parties that allow to maintain their vote banks in different communities
2)Separation of religion from the state. Religion shall not interfere with the state and the state shall not interfere with religion.
This is the only definition that I would accept.
As a citizen, I have only one thing to say to religion-mongers. Keep that faith of yours within the four walls of your house or within the four walls of your place of worship, temple, church or mosque.” Period.
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/20/2022 01:47
@Chessbibliophile Yet, I maintain that I very much doubt that the issue would be as serious in India as in Pakistan, where the state's laws render the execution of whoever would leave Islam, brutally oppresses women, has doctrines of slavery in practice, even though it is unconstitutional, so the persecution of people because of religion is systematic in Pakistan, while in India, as far as I understand your arguments, it is perpetrated by terror groups which are not caught/punished in the way they should be. So, India may be complicit in egregious crimes, while Pakistan is systematic perpetrator.

And the main point is that, as far as I know (but I did not read the Righ Veda, despite starting to do so once) as far as I know the majority in India does not have a revelation received directly from a divine being that commands the terrorisation and extermination of "unbelievers". So, while extremists exist and perpetrate crimes, their core beliefs do not contain such doctrines, while Islam contains commands that render the killing of unbelievers, without specifying the place, the target group or the time, so it is a universal command.
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/20/2022 01:47
@Chessbibliophile I detest and denounce all terror groups, lynch mobs or anything of the like that violently attack, terrorizes or even kills members of a group they consider to be "evil". While I have a serious problem with Islam (you would agree with me if you would read the Quran, the Bukhari, Muslim, Thirmidhi, Abu Dawood, Ibn Nasai hadiths, the Reliance of the Traeveller, the Tafsir of ibn Kathir, the history of Jihaad, when in the name of Allah the Islamic caliphates "defended" their way well into Europe in the West, including the Iberian Peninsula and even the Balkans and Hungary and India in the East as well as the Sirat of ibn Ishak, sources I have read), the problems we, non-Muslims may detect regarding Islam do not justify any oppression or persecution of innocent individuals who happen to be Muslim. Hence, I detest and denounce the terror groups in India, formed by the majority against the minority.
chessbibliophile chessbibliophile 3/20/2022 12:37
@ Saurav4000 and@lajosarpad,
Sorry to address both of you again.
What about the terror groups that run in the name of the majority community in India? The Bajrang Dal, Shiv Sena*and Sanatan Sanstha. They all have blood on their hands. The last is of them is most “distinguished”, its activists have killed four citizens, Gauri Lankesh, Narendra Dabholkar, Govind Pansare and M.M. Kalburgi. What was their offence? They spoke out against this aggressive and violent Hindutva. They had to be taught a lesson.
But let me return to the issue of Muslim frustration and palpable sense of injustice.
My answer to all young Muslim boys and girls is still the same. “Don’t despair. We all care for you. Don’t allow yourselves to be indoctrinated against your better judgment. Let us all be together.”
A non-violent democratic movement with the motto, “One for all and all for one” is the only way in India.
* The Shiv Sena literally ran riot in Maharshtra from 1970 to 1992 and now it has acquired “respectability”. It’s sharing power in Maharashtra.
**Amidst all this grim business let me tell you a “joke”. During 1992-93 riots the Shiv Sena mob burnt a laundry owned by a Muslim in our area in Mumbai. His customers were all Hindus and their clothes had been burnt. Now what are a few clothes for a “good” cause?
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/20/2022 12:28
@chessbibliophile

Since

1. Allah commands Muslims to terrorize non-Muslims and to kill them
2. Muhammad, a terrorist is the pattern of conduct
3. Terror as a strategy usually works

Islamic terror will not stop with the oppression of Muslims.

So, you are obviously wrong when you state that

"When the demand for justice is met, there will be no desire for revenge on the part of Muslim minority groups, especially, the impressionable young."

If you maintain that the cause of Islamic terrorism is the oppression Muslims face in India, then I challenge you to a public debate in the topic, outside the realms of a chess site where I can comprehensively make my case, without restricting the content.
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/20/2022 12:25
@chessbibliophile I have to respond to your comment about Islamic terrorism.

You seem to assume that the reason for Islamic terror is the oppression/persecution Muslims face in India. I believe you that this is bad.

However, I factually know that you are wrong in assuming that the cause of Islamic terror is the oppression Muslims face. It is not. Islamic terror would exist even without oppression. The prophet of Islam, Muhammad ibn Abdullah was a terrorist. He attacked and robbed the caravans from Mecca after the Hijra. He and his robber band gradually became more and more powerful until gaining political force. Once they have got political force, in the span of 10 years, they violently subjugated the Arabian peninsula.

In Mecca there were 3 Jewish tribes: banu Qainuqa, banu Nadir and banu Qurayza. All three tribes were wiped out. Qainuqa and Nadir were luckier, they were "just" deported, but banu Qurayza was sieged after the battle of the trench, all men were executed and women and children were taken as slaves.

Quran 9:5: https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=9&verse=5

commands that after the sacred months, the Muslims must kill the polytheists wherever they find them, until they become Muslims.

Quran 9:29: https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=9&verse=29

Orders Muslims to wage Jihaad against the People of the Book (Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians), until they become dhimmis (second-class citizens, who are subdued and who pay a tax to be left alive)

Quran 9:51: https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=5&verse=51

Prohibits friendship with Jews and Christians.

Quran 8:12: https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=8&verse=12

states that Allah casts terror into the hearts of the unbelievers and Muslims should decapitate unbelievers.

Quran 8:60: https://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=8&verse=60

Commands Muslims to use any means they can in order to terrorize (!) the "enemies of Allah"
chessbibliophile chessbibliophile 3/20/2022 12:10
@Saurav4000 and @Lajosarpad,
As I mentioned before, I would not be able to respond to each of the comments here. So here let me address only one issue.
Am I not aware of the terror unleashed by “Islamic” groups? How is that I do not have a word of criticism?
The answer is, I am more than aware. In recent decades years many Muslims have been harassed, attacked, beaten up & killed. The police look the other way. Cases go on for years in courts. Meanwhile litigants and witnesses both are threatened. Cases collapse and culprits go scot-free. The press and other media are under constant pressure not to report or to make an issue out of these grievances. Meanwhile civil society remains silent and its responsible voices are silenced by bullet.
The frustration and rage over it all takes the form of revenge against a society and state that does not “CARE”. That becomes terror. And of course the ISI, army and the Government of Pakistan are right there to take advantage of this situation.
When one terror attack takes place by an alleged Islamic group, 5 may be involved. But 50 are put behind bars and tortured. The case does not go the court. For every wrongful detention of an innocent and a life ruined, there would be other young people seeking revenge. This has become a seemingly never-ending spiral.
When the demand for justice is met, there will be no desire for revenge on the part of Muslim minority groups, especially, the impressionable young.
chessbibliophile chessbibliophile 3/20/2022 11:04
@lajosprasad,
In the last week of October 1947 The Maharaja of Kashmir found he could not defend his kingdom against invaders from Pakistan. He signed the Instrument of Accession with the Government of India (not only PM Nehru). Thereafter the Indian army entered the state to repel the invaders. It was by and large, successful, but some territory still remained with Pakistan and the latter persisted in aggression. So the Government of India approached the UNO for a settlement of dispute.
The Security Council passed a three-way Resolution:
1) Pakistani withdraws its nationals from the Kashmir territory
2)India reduces its troops to minimum level,
3) It arranges for a plebiscite allowing the people of Kashmir to decide whether they wanted to remain in India or become part of Pakistan or remain an independent state.
Unfortunately, Pakistan did not withdraw its “nationals” (tribal invaders assisted by the army) and continued to e a threat to both Kashmir and India. In the circumstances the Government of India maintained that it could not carry out plebiscite as Pakistan had not honoured its implementation of the Security Council Resolution.
chessbibliophile chessbibliophile 3/20/2022 09:40
@ arzi and @Lajosarpad,

These are a few links on the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki
The first offers a link to President Obama’s visit to Hiroshima:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ey89C05FOw

Here is the text of his speech:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/28/world/asia/text-of-president-obamas-speech-in-hiroshima-japan.html

And now for criticism of his speech:
https://www.nippon.com/en/currents/d00233/

The attitude of successive U.S. governments is summed up here:
https://thediplomat.com/2020/08/hey-lets-forget-that-no-us-apology-for-the-atomic-bombings-of-hiroshima-and-nagasaki/

The following link offers a series of short reviews on the subject. However, one has to be circumspect about the thesis in the book, “Racing the enemy”. According to Sadao Asada, the research into sources is not as thorough as it claims to be and the conclusion is rather one-sided:
https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2005_07-08/Kuznick

A short list of books
1) Hiroshima by John Hersey (1946)
This narrative of six survivors is a classic
2)Fallout by Lesley M. Blume
“It tells the story of the US Government’s cover up of the truth on the bombing and how a courageous reporter revealed it to the world “(from the blurb)
3)To Hell and Back :The Last Train from Hiroshima by Charles R. Pellegrino
Survivors look back and tell their stories
4) Dear Grandpa: An American who lost his grandfather in the Pacific War Meets a Japanese Victim of Hiroshima Bombing
5) Culture Shock and Japanese –American relations by Sadao Asada
A collection of essays by the renowned Japanese historian.
In one of them he claims, both the bombing of Hiroshima & Nagasaki and also the entry of the USSSR the war together brought about the surrender of Japan.
I have reason to disagree.
6)The Age of Hiroshima by Gordin and Ikenberry
A collection of critical essays from various perspectives on both the bombing and the nuclear era in which we live
chessbibliophile chessbibliophile 3/20/2022 09:28
@arzi and @Lajosarpad

We have had this interaction on the bombing of Hiroshima on this page. Strictly speaking, it does not relate to the main topic, Kasparov on Russia’s attack on Ukraine. On the subject of superpower rivalry, nuclear threat and war, yes.
Was the bombing necessary? No. More than 150 American scientists who were aware of the nuclear test with all its terrifying effects had written an appeal to the U.S. President that the bomb should not be used. Did he see it or not?
That apart, there are two main arguments against the bombing:
1) Japan was already on the point of defeat with both military and economic blockade.
2) The entry of the USSR into the war against proved to be decisive. There was no way of Japan fighting against both the USA and the USSR.
Here one also has to examine the role of Hirohito and Truman. They were both heads of the state and their culpability is not evaded by historians.
Hirohito was vacillating and allowed himself to be used by the Japanese military chiefs.
Truman was worse and insisted on unconditional surrender, not allowing a defeated nation an honourable way of accepting defeat. If he had persuaded Stalin to support the war with Japan, Japanese surrender would have been immediate.
The dubious “honour” of ushering in the nuclear race belongs to Truman along with his hardline advisors.
I shall repeat what I wrote here in relation to the attack on Pearl Harbour with a slight change of wording.
Moderates on both sides tried their best to prevent the catastrophe. However, it was the hardliners on both sides prevailed in the end.
The deliberations that took place in the offices of the U.S. President and the monarch of Japan with all their misunderstandings and miscalculations of each other’s strength and ability make sad reading.
In the next post I shall offer informative links and also a set of suggestions on books related to the topic.
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/19/2022 07:55
@Saurav4000 Yes, you are right, we agree about communism as well. The problem with communism is that it views to be unjust any unequality of outcome. Yet, in a free society, when everyone is free to pursue his/her goals and achieve results based on his/her talent and hard-work, the end result is inevitably unequal. So, the "solution" to achieve economical or cultural equality is to artificially sabotage the success of the deserving and reward the undeserving. So, we have equality before the law as a concept rooted in classical liberalism that I absolutely value (although I'm actually not a liberal) and the socialistic view of equity, or, in other words, the equality of results. If we would take seriously the need to have equality, then we should abolish results of chess games and name everyone a GM. I admit that this is quite the parody about socialism, but there are some recognizable patterns in it :)

@chessbibliophile I have to correct myself. Kashmir did not vote to join India, it was rather decided by Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru, with a promise for the referendum when it was attacked by Pakistan. I have studied this problem four years ago, approximately, when I have written some notes about how the Islamic strategy to reach a world caliphate resembles a chess game, titled "The allegory between Islam and chess". It was written between 2017-2019 based on Islamic sources and world history and it is a quite comprehensive research, which was never published, but it is shared between people interested about the topic. I should have checked my own notes before writing about Kashmir :)
Saurav4000 Saurav4000 3/19/2022 07:21
@lajosarpad: "So, as usual, we agree with each-other on some thing and disagree on others. No hard feelings."

It's nice to see general consensus on many points on the ongoing crisis at Ukraine, despite some disagreements (which is only normal).
Saurav4000 Saurav4000 3/19/2022 07:08
@lajosarpad: "irst of all, I would like to clarify that I understood your position, according to which collective guilt is only applicable in extreme situations, such as in the case of voting for Hitler. I am confident that I grasped your position well and I also believe that my response to it addresses your position accurately."

You have beautifully encapsulated my stance on this rather delicate subject. Because it is so easy to be an idealist during peacetime and because we massively underestimate the willingness of human beings to confirm, I salute the few braves like Mr. Arkady Dvorkovich, Mr. Kasparov (and others) who dared to condemn Putin, in the face of great personal danger.

"We seem to consistently agree about Islam. Thank you for honestly and bravely sharing your opinion about it."

Not only Islam, as regards your stance regarding communism, I also do not get the lure of it. While I did not have a firsthand experience of communism (unlike you), let me share that I don’t come from what would normally be considered a “privileged” background. I also don’t come from the nether section of society either. I’d fall into middle class category. A modest background. Still, this pursuit of achieving some “utopia” where everyone is equal, where no-one is better than the next person and where everyone shares everything communally, is anathema to me.
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/19/2022 05:52
@chessbibliophile I agree with you that every victim of human rights abuses is a victim. Yet, as far as I know, Kashmir was attacked by Pakistan in 1947 and voted to be part of India, even though the majority of Kashmiri people were Muslims. The invading tribesmen, backed by the Pakistani military and political establishment committed atrocities and Hindus and Muslims alike had to experience egregious acts. India and Pakistan to this day are debating the whereabouts of Jammu and Kashmir and I'm sure that human rights abuses - unfortunately - happen to this day.
chessbibliophile chessbibliophile 3/19/2022 05:45
@Saurav4000 and @Lajosarpad,
In commenting on the issue of minorities in India I inadvertently overlooked the Sikhs. They were the victims of 1984 riots that followed the assassination of PM Indira Gandhi.
Prosecution of perpetrators was slow and only a few convictions followed. The fact that the mobs were led by the local leaders of the then Ruling party, Congress made the path of justice difficult. As members of the Sikh community would tell, other political parties made use of their grievance only for garnering votes.
A victim is a victim, no matter which community he belongs. Kashmir valley Muslims are victims . So are Kashmir Pandits harassed and driven out of their home land.
No, I am not idealizing minority groups as ideal communities and paragons of citizenship. Often they are also misguided and go disastrously wrong. In India majority communalism feeds minority communalism and vice-versa. For communalism always needs an enemy. If all lived in peace, where would be majority or minority politics? While I remain sympathetic to grievances of minorities, I am aware of their weaknesses and flaws. Discerning minds among them would say, “We should also do some introspection on ourselves. What can we do to solve our problems within the community and how best can we be part of the main stream of public life freely and without losing our own identity and character?”
I have not forgotten that this thread is about Ukraine and the one ostensible reason for the attack on the country was the question of the Russians in Eastern Ukraine. Friends here
may set aside the specific Indian context and see the bigger picture of minorities and their issues.
P.S.; It goes without saying that I am apolitical and do not subscribe to ideology of the Left and the Right.
lajosarpad lajosarpad 3/19/2022 05:26
@Saurav4000 First of all, I would like to clarify that I understood your position, according to which collective guilt is only applicable in extreme situations, such as in the case of voting for Hitler. I am confident that I grasped your position well and I also believe that my response to it addresses your position accurately. My objection was against the point of view that could be summed up as

"In some grave cases there is a collective responsibility"

which I disagree with. I have brought up factually the UN's Universal Human Rights Declaration in support of my position that can be summed up as

"No individual should be blamed for the misakes and wrongdoings of a collective until the individual is found personally guilty".

We have a disagreement about this and I believe both of us made our case. So, if we agree to disagree, then I'm okay with it. If you want to discuss this further, I'm okay with that as well. At this point, I think both positions are clarified with arguments.

We seem to consistently agree about Islam. Thank you for honestly and bravely sharing your opinion about it.

So, as usual, we agree with each-other on some thing and disagree on others. No hard feelings.
chessbibliophile chessbibliophile 3/19/2022 03:37
On Pearl Harbour again

By way of general interest, I shall mention a few books and they are a key to our learning of history.
One important point is the extraordinary understanding and affection shown by some of the authors here, men who loved the “enemy country”. James C. Grew, the U.S. Ambassador to Japan wrote this book, “Ten years in Japan” recalling his experiences during the critical years, 1932-1942. It was translated and it became a classic in Japan. He dedicated his life to the fostering of the American-Japanese relationship. Sadao Asada, renowned Japanese historian mentions how they followed his example in more ways than one.
List of Select Books
1) Ten years in Japan by James C. Grew (available in archive.org)
2) Culture shock and Japanese-American relations by Sadao Asada
3)Britain, Japan and Pearl Harbour by Antony Best
4)Bankrupting the Enemy, the U.S. Financial Siege of Japan before Pearl Harbour by James Miller
4)Japan Prepares for Total War :The search for Economic Security 1919-1941
by Michael Barnhart
5)From Mahan to Pearl Habour by Sadao Asada

Currently I am hastening to tie up a few loose threads in our discussion on various issues. I won’t be able to see responses thereafter. So it’s everyone’s discretion to see what to accept and what not to accept about my suggestions or comment.
chessbibliophile chessbibliophile 3/19/2022 03:36
@arzi and @lajosarpad,

You have had this interaction on the attack on Pear Harbor on this page. Strictly speaking, it does not relate to the main topic, Kasparov on Russia’s attack on Ukraine. On the subject of superpower rivalry and war, yes. In this case there is a kind of consensus between historians.
From late 19th Century to the first four decades of the 20th Century three powers, Great Britain, the USA and Japan were competing for control over the Pacific Ocean and the Far East. The USA had reason to believe that its interests in the region were affected by the expansionism of Japan. It initiated an economic blockade with sanctions preventing the export of oil, iron and steel to Japan. The attack on Pearl Harbour was the culmination of cold war between the two countries. Moderates on both sides tried their best to prevent a confrontation between the two. However, it was the hardliners on both sides prevailed in the end. The negotiations that preceded the attack with mutual misunderstandings and miscalculations of each other’s strength and ability make fascinating reading. With the opening of British, American and Japanese archives and the first hand accounts of participants a whole new world has opened up. One important point between both American and Japanese historians is the absence of blame game like “You started it first!” “No, you did!” Both have been free in acknowledging errors of omission and commission on their own. Which side do they belong to? It’s the side of truth and our understanding of that truth is still evolving.
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