The other side of chess

How many chess players do you know? And how many chess players do you truly know? We see the player, but we rarely see the person. The player who spends hours analysing positions is also a father playing with this child. The player who wins the tournament is the same person who carries the weight of losses. The player who calculates twenty moves ahead is also the same person who spends sleepless nights preparing for a game. Recently, Sagar Shah had the chance to interview someone who is a great player, but more importantly, who is an even greater person!

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This was after Indian GM Aravindh Chidambaram's stellar performance at the Prague Masters. Sagar met another Indian GM who had made Prague his home. He was none other than India number seven Pentala Harikrishna. Together, they explored the city's iconic spots like the Kafka head, dancing house, historic structures and many more. They also went to the amazing ice parlour 'Angelato'. The best highlight of their day was their visit to Petrin Hill, a calm and beautiful place, a perfect spot for a heart-to-heart conversation with one of the strongest chess players India has ever produced.

Interview with Pentala Harikrishna | Video: ChessBase India

Full transcript

Sagar Shah (SS): Hari, what a beautiful place you have brought us! It's amazing. While you showed us the city, I felt like you were so proud of this city.

Pentala Harikrishna (PH): I am very happy of course! I usually come to this place during summer and spring. So I was sure you would go to the touristic places. I felt that you would not come to the Petrin Hill. You also got the excellent ice cream. We also saw Beas Dhaba.

SS: It was something I was trying to find for ten years! I think Amruta will be very happy. But Hari, when did you come here to Prague?

PH: It has been a little more than seven years since I moved here. For four years, I was staying out of Prague, exactly during the pandemic time. And now I moved back to the city, which is pretty close to Petrin Hill.

SS: I want to talk a bit about your time in Europe. You have lived here. Your life is so different from all the other Indian chess players I know, in terms of living here, but also you have a Serbian partner. So I want to know a bit about how this began. How did you get to know Nadezda? Also, would it be right to say that the Europeans staying in Europe came into being or was it even before that?

PH: To move to Europe, to be closer to the leagues and other events has always been on my mind since I was 18-19. Mainly because the travel for the leagues is extremely hard, especially when you play Bundesliga, you need to start on Friday and you fly back on Monday. That was getting a little bit hard. I already participated in one or two seasons when I was 19. And then I figured that living here would be much better. I saw Anand staying in Spain. It was clear but it was hard for me to make the whole logistics and moving to Europe. Somehow, when Nadezda and I started around 2010, I came first to Belgrade and then moved to Prague. So from Belgrade it was easier also to travel for the leagues. There were some visa difficulties. We figured that Prague would be an ideal city. Firstly, I have been working with David Navara since 2012. Also I have been playing for Novy Bor Chess Club since 2013. Prague is a nice city and well-connected. Things are not as expensive as in Germany, the Netherlands and other Scandinavian countries.

So that was the reason for both me and Nadezda moving, and now Maya is also there. That's basically it. Regarding Nadezda, we met at the U-10 junior tournament, but we didn't really speak at that time. Later on, we got connected via some friends and then slowly we started talking and that's how it progressed. We got married in 2018.

Harikrishna married the love of his life, Nadezda, in 2018

Pentala Harikrishna and Nadezda Stojanovic's traditional wedding. | Video: ChessBase India

SS: It was a beautiful wedding, actually.

PH: Thanks! Everyone nailed it in the dance. That's how the move from India to Prague happened.

Aruna Anand and Sudeshna Ganguly stole the show with their dance moves! | Video: ChessBase India

SS: In your chess career, you were rising as a chess player and you kind of hit the peak in 2016. This was the phase when you were among the top ten in the world. At that point, you were based in Europe. You could travel to different events. Was it something that helped you get here? Because now I see that even living in India you can make a career and people can travel. What has changed? Because, still not many tournaments are happening in India.

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PH: Back then, we didn't have as many sponsors as right now we have. We had jobs from the public sectors in BPCL, ONGC, IOC, other oil companies, or the public sector. But players were not having private sponsors. The only way to make the league sustainable or to get a chance to play against stronger players, at least for me at that time, was to be able to stay near. Because travelling for every league was not a great idea financially. Right now, the change is that most of the top players, not only Indians but other countries as well, have sponsors. They are not relying on the money from the leagues or other things. They want to play more. That has changed dramatically, maybe around 2022 onwards.

Of course, now you can stay in India and travel, and you get to play close tournaments or any tournament is completely fine. But ten years ago, it wasn't like this. During the pandemic, we saw a chess boom and so many sponsors got interested in chess. With the achievements of all the juniors right now, all together the situation has changed. I am really glad that it transformed in this way.

SS: They say that we build on the shoulders of the previous generation, and I think you paved a lot of the way out of it. Of course, Vishy Anand, Sasikiran, you, everyone worked a lot to make this.

PH: I would say that Anand's work is much higher than ours. But I can be proud of myself, Sasikiran, and other grandmasters like Abijit, Surya, Sandepan, and many other players. Because things were quite different and whatever the situation was, we gave the best and that is how it is. Right now, it’s amazing to see what the juniors are doing. When Anand showed the way that you can be the World Champion, it was a huge motivation for all the players who were playing at that time. When Gukesh won the World Championship, all the players of age 7-8 started thinking of winning one, I can't say youngsters, as Gukesh is 18. Already the bar is so high right now. So that's something really amazing.

Anand's World Championship victory gave hope to many Indian chess players!

SS: I see that because when I interview some youngsters, they all say that we want to become the youngest World Champion.

PH: I feel that is a great thing that they believe that they can. Because who becomes or what happens, we can't really know. As a youngster, you need to have that belief and not be too realistic in some cases. So when I was young, I was not very realistic with my play or ambitions. When you are young, you need to be a little bit unrealistic sometimes.

SS: That's very well said! Actually, when you reached the top ten in the world, at that point, what do you think could have been done so you could have, let's say, broken into the Candidates, and become even closer to becoming the World Champion?

PH: I played some closed tournaments, but I was not playing regularly, and therefore I had to rely more on playing Opens or League tournaments to increase my rating. When I was doing that, I had a different approach. You can't really play the same way in closed tournaments. For me, it was a little bit harder to adjust to this switch. When I play League, I have to think differently and when I play the closed tournament, I have to adapt to a different style. When I wasn't able to do the switch, it was getting a little bit hard. In some of the close tournaments, I would lose one game and I would just go for the next game to win. But you are facing another 2750-rated player, which is not the case when you play Leagues or open tournaments. That was one of the things.

Of course, there could be more reasons. Let's say, there were some events where I was doing quite well, for example, I did quite well in Hangzhou, Shenzhen, but at the same time, I was not consistent in closed tournaments, which is mainly because I was quite used to Opens and League tournaments, where I have to win as many games as possible. So I couldn't switch in the right way and that's when I reached 2770. I believe that was my highest rating and the live rating was maybe around 2773 or something like that in 2016. But then I couldn't maintain that. 2017 was okay actually, but when I played Leagues, it was quite risky with such a high rating. Slowly I dropped my rating, which happens.

SS: Now that I think of it, it was incredible that you reached there. I still remember that day when your rating surpassed Vishy Anand - because I was in Moscow, during the Candidates. You had surpassed it and it took another eight years for someone to get close to that.

PH: Yes, it was really nice at that point because reaching anywhere near Anand's rating was like a dream for every player. I had a very good period starting from 2015 January or something from Gibraltar till maybe 2016 end. I had really a dream run where I increased not only my rating but also my playing strength. I did well in some tournaments as well. I cannot recall which tournament…

SS: I remember one photo of yours at the Isle of Man tournament, where you have two trophies in your hand.

Harikrishna won the Isle of Man in 2015 with a score of 7/9 | Photo: chess.com

PH: I won the Isle of Man in 2015. I just cannot recall which tournaments, or how I performed. But I had a good run from 2015. Generally, I always had these periods when I would have maybe stagnant or slow. Then at some point, I just pick it up. It happened in the past. It's a normal thing.

SS: During this entire journey, how was it to have someone with you, who is a chess player, who understands this journey? Can you tell a bit about Nadezda's role in your chess journey at different phases - when you were going upwards, then you became a world-class player?

PH: Well she is my biggest supporter. It's a challenging role because she wants me to perform the best and win. So the acceptance and how to regain the confidence, the support, how to make me fight back, it's a very challenging role for every chess partner. She did the best that she could. I had a difficult tournament phase where I was not doing well. Obviously, support from home is the most important thing, I would say. Because when I have good support from Nadezda, my family, it's always possible to improve the game. That's why I had many periods where I was not doing well, but then I always improved. Most importantly, I enjoy playing chess. So that's the key for me.

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The real victory is having a supportive partner and Harikrishna is clearly winning at it! | Photo: Shamkir Chess

SS: She is also a strong player, right? Her rating was around 2100 or something.

PH: She was the junior champion of Yugoslavia back in the day. She is also a FIDE arbiter and also trying to be a fair play officer. So hopefully, she will complete it soon enough. She is also training now some of the youngsters from the US.

SS: So she is totally into chess. You both are completely into chess.

PH: Yeah. Just different parts of chess, but we are into chess.

SS: What was it about her that made you realize that she is my life partner, that I want to spend my life with her?

PH: When you ask so straight, I cannot find the answer. But it's like this feeling that you know it's her, but you can't explain or express why. Something like this. I just feel it, but I don't know if you ask one particular thing that she does, that I like the most, I just cannot answer. I don't find it that way. I just feel she is the one, and I don't know why.

Harikrishna and Nadezda with their little one, Maya! | Photo: Harikrishna's Instagram

SSIn fact, when I travel around, I interact with a lot of players, of course, many Indian players. I know for a fact that many of them like girls from outside India…

PH: (Laughs) All the parents are watching. Let's check who is this.

SS: But in a way, many of them think about it that will my family accept. You are one of the role models there in Indian chess.

PH: I wouldn't say the parents will appreciate that but okay.

SS: But it's a wonderful thing. We always say the world is one family, and so in that sense...

PH: I am not going to give any advice. But generally, it's up to the person and, after all, it's two people. It's hard to say who is best for you.

SS: In general, I think when there is love, it doesn't matter if there are different cultures and I think sooner or later people come together in that sense.

PH: You are missing Amruta too much. (Laughs) Yes, you are right!

SS: But Hari, coming to now recent times, when you have become a very unique personality in the world of chess, which is the fact that you have been a part of the team of two World Champions, Gukesh and Ju Wenjun. Did you ever imagine that this will be the path you will take? How can this happen?

Harikrishna was one of the seconds of Women's World Champion Ju Wenjun

PH: If someone had said 2-2½ years ago that you would be training both the World Champions, I would have laughed. I was just watching Ding's match in 2023, and then I was just chatting with Ni Hua like what's happening. He is my good friend. Then one day, he said he wanted to talk about something important. Then he explained the match and the whole training. Actually, at that time, I couldn't travel to China because China was closed until maybe April 2023. No foreigners could go there. I spoke to Nadezda and she said why not. Because it would be a nice challenge. Honestly, I had no experience. I have helped my friends sometimes.

SS: But in fact, it would always be the other way, right? Many people would help you in your training. Because you are a world-class player.

PH: I even had a second for that year. Felix was helping me with the Prague Masters. When I got this offer, I was thinking about what to do. I thought, let's try. I didn't really think too much, I just discussed it with Nadezda.

SS: Was it easy to make this switch?

PH: I think playing or coaching, both are just chess activities. I have some experience, but not exactly like training a 2000-rated player. Ju is already a strong player. So the help that I am going to provide to her will not be from basics. We started working, sometimes I was working during my tournaments as well.

SS: Were you chosen to work with her because of some specific things that you could bring to her game, or was it because just you as a personality they wanted you?

PH: I have no idea. I have played for the Shanghai team for a really long time. I think the first time I played for them was in 2008 when Shanghai won the Championship. I know Ni Hua, Ju Wenjun and all the teammates. I believe that's one of the reasons. I don't know exactly if they checked my games or whatever. That would be hard for me to think. But whatever the reason, we worked for only two months. Somehow it worked out quite well. In the end, the first part of the Championship was different, and the second part was totally different. We changed the strategy after the first part. But for me, it was quite impressive that Ju Wenjun was so confident on the last day, especially to play such a risky line, where it was just one game. That's quite impressive, I have to say.

SS: You, of course, won - like made her into a World Champion along with the team. But with Gukesh, you were working even before. It was even before Ju Wenjun. When I spoke with Gukesh's father, he mentioned that actually you were the one who spotted a lot of talent in Gukesh - and really that inspired him.

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PH: I did tell, but I didn't know that it motivated him. So it's nice to know. Of course, I was following his game and I don't recall if I asked Vishnu. Because I didn't have any contact directly with him. I might have got his contact through Vishnu if I am not mistaken. For me, it was great because I really like to analyse without an engine. For me, it was enough that he didn't use the engine. As compared to now, it was different, but at that time, I also felt that his strength was much higher. I guess his rating was low because he didn't play many events. Of course, you saw it at the Olympiad because I think we worked after the Prague Masters. For me, it was very interesting, and like I said, he is not just working, but he is just living in the analysis. He is also not so keen on checking whether the analysis is right or wrong. He just enjoys the whole process of analysis. I also like it that way.

Harikrishna worked with Gukesh for the first time even before the World Championship

SS: In this process, it doesn't matter whether you find the right move or not. What is more important is how you evolve your thinking process.

PH: For example, I make some moves on the board which may not be the best. But you have to refute me over the board because you don't have a second chance. The second chance doesn't exist in chess. That is the reason why you are able to process the whole situation and come up with the moves over the board. Because once you see the engine, it's very easy. On the other hand, nobody is going to tell you during the game that you have a winning chance or whatever. First, to understand that there is a chance or to understand the concepts, it's important to practice without an engine before going to the event. Then only you learn the concepts. If something is wrong, you check with the engine, it's not an issue. Instead of trying to solve some middle-game positions or all those things, it's better to just analyse random compositions that you get out of openings. You don't have to look for material or wait for somebody to do it right. Anyway, to answer your question, I saw that Gukesh really likes to analyse. That's the only thing I have to say.

SS: So when you analysed with him back then and given what happened, it's not a big surprise that he has improved so rapidly from 2650 to 2790 now.

PH: I mean, rating, yes. Obviously, he understands many concepts. He doesn't start from zero. He is already at a very high level. Of course, he is still looking forward to improving further, which is a great thing. I mean, what can I say about the World Champion?

SS: This entire thing where you helped him and you were also a part of the Olympiad team that won the gold medal. Somehow you have won every single team event. Because you have played in the Polish League, you have played in Bundesliga, the European League, and everything you have won, do you think that the ability to be a team player is also helping you when you work in a team environment? What is that skill in you that makes you such a formidable team player?

PH: I definitely have pretty good results in a team. That's something I can really be proud of. In my chess career so far, I have really had the highest team event success. I can put myself in one of the best I can say. For the Indian team, I think the only medal I was missing was the Olympiad. From the World Team Championship to the Asian Team Chess Championship, I had three medals from the Asian Games. I am really glad that I was a part of the Chess Olympiad last year. Actually, last year was really an excellent year for me. I won the European Club Cup, Olympiad, Gukesh Candidates, and Gukesh World Championship. So, hard to complain (smiles).

Harikrishna played a key role for Team Wroclaw's victory in the Polish Extra League in 2019 | Photo: Shenzhen Masters 2019

Harikrishna was part of the Indian men's team that won the silver medal at the Asian Games in 2023

How can we forget the golden victory at the 45^th Chess Olympiad? | Photo: Michal Walusza

SS: Also 2025 started with a bang I would say, because you played so well at Tata Steel.

PH: A little sad thing that I might have not spoiled, but the loss for Arjun in the first round was not a perfect start. Because, of course, he is fighting for the Candidates. The round one victory can really help in the rounds later. But I would say that was unexpected for me because I was prepared physically. I actually had only five days because I was in Bangalore, if you remember. I was quite tired after the match. Then Felix came. We prepared something. Of course, Arjun surprised me. This was not all preparation, as people would think. Of course, that gave me huge confidence and I really had nice games in Wijk aan Zee. Actually, I was the oldest participant. Also, I was invited at the last minute as Vidit's replacement. So I wanted to do good but also, when you don't play in such a strong event for some years, like the Prague Chess Festival could be the last strong event I played (in 2023), you always feel, will I be able to do it? And, luckily, it started off good for me. I had nice games.

SS: What will 2025 bring? Because you are playing well, now back in 2700. There is the World Championship match for Women's coming up in April. Then Gukesh's match will come up next year. How do you see yourself in this current chess world?

PH: I think I am just happy to do any chess activity, so it doesn't matter whether I am playing or coaching. For now, ratings keep going up and down. They are probably as unstable as stocks. But I am more interested and focused on getting the thrill of playing games, not just the results. But to play good games and get back to my strength.

SS: 2016 strength?

PH: I don't know. I don't have any kind of clear goals. But I just want to play the best I can and improve with each game. That's my goal.

SS: And also the very important part of your life is that you became a dad. That also factors in, right? Like you would love to spend time with Maya…

PH: Exactly. Of course, she is growing. Years are passing so quickly and I also don't want to miss that time. I am managing time with Maya, Nadezda, coaching, playing and all these things. But one thing that is most important, I would say, is that whatever I find challenging or keeping me happy, I am doing it.

Some moments make you wish time could stop! | Photo: Harikrishna's Instagram

SS: I can see a real effort there. One of the incidents which happened even today was that you love ice cream, but you did not eat it. I think it is your way of saying that I am still a very serious player. I want to stay fit. I want to lead a life of an athlete.

PH: Actually mainly I was not in such good shape until June 2024. Due to various things, I ignored my fitness, and I was eating a lot of junk. Obviously, that reflected on my play more than the rating. The general approach towards chess will be visible when you are not in good shape. Then I decided that it was not only about increasing my rating, but also when I was playing with Maya, I could see a clear difference sometime before. There are many reasons why I started the whole thing. But that is also one of the reasons to be able to play with her and not get tired, to travel and things like that. It's a package. Yes, it helps in chess, but that's not the only reason.

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SS: Amazing Hari! Sitting in this backdrop of Prague city behind, we covered so many topics and I realized while talking to you that someone from India who reached top ten in the world, lived in Europe, married someone outside the country, now lives in Prague, won all the team tournaments that are there almost, won the Olympiad gold, helped two World Champions. It's such a unique chess career that you have!

PH: Actually, when you put it that way, it really feels good. But I just go one after the other.

SS: You are not even 40 yet.

PH: Yes, I will be soon! But I don't feel it.

SS: There is so much more. As you said, you are just going with the flow. But is there something you would like to achieve?

PH: Not really. I just go with it every day. If tomorrow, I get a chance to play, I will just think about how to play. If I am going on a trip, I just live by the day.

SS: It's a spiritual way to live actually.

PH: I don't know about that (laughs) but okay. I just feel that way and I think it's peaceful, much more practical.

SS: Thank you Hari for your time, and thank you for this beautiful day that you spent with us!

PH: Thank you! I hope you like the whole place. We didn't have much time, but the view is good.

Links

• Harikrishna and Keymer clinch Prague Festival titles
• Let's Talk about Chess... with Pentala Harikrishna
• Throwback Thursday: Harikrishna wins on the Isle of Man